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 Model 1859 USMC Shako Insignia on EBay. Honest opinion requested

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Papa Bear
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PostSubject: Model 1859 USMC Shako Insignia on EBay. Honest opinion requested   February 25th 2013, 4:13 pm

Okay all,

I am not one to buy relics or sell them (Sorry Matt, the NC State Seal stays in Utah) but, as a retired Marine, when I saw this I was definitely interested:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-MODEL-1859-US-MARINE-CORPS-2-PIECE-SHAKO-HELMET-INSIGNIA-/130855189079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e7793ba57

Now let me add that my first choice of Marine Corps items from the Civil War would be those relating to the Confederate Marine Corps but I have as much chance of finding such an item as spitting into the wind and staying dry........

So, what do you all think? Real? Fake?

Thanks in advance.....
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PostSubject: Re: Model 1859 USMC Shako Insignia on EBay. Honest opinion requested   February 25th 2013, 5:05 pm

I don't know about that one Papa Bear. Never heard of Civil War helmets. I do know that some body armor was used but don't know about helmets. The U.S. Army didn't issue helmets until the 1880's, it was a pith type helmet. It wasn't issued as much for protection against bullets or debris, but more for protection against the sun. First issued to soldiers in the southwest U.S. I could be wrong, but I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole. Let's hear some other opinions first.
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PostSubject: Re: Model 1859 USMC Shako Insignia on EBay. Honest opinion requested   February 25th 2013, 6:30 pm

It looks too new to me. I have't heard of a USMC shako either. If I were going to buy any relic I would want to purchase from an experienced reputable seller. This guy has 3 feedbacks. Not enough for me. JMHO.
Mike
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PostSubject: Re: Model 1859 USMC Shako Insignia on EBay. Honest opinion requested   February 25th 2013, 6:56 pm

For what its worth, a shako was not a helmet, but rather a tall cylindrical cap and used as early as the 1820s by foreign nations. Check out the link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shako

Much of our early military garb was based on European designs, such as the Kepi (French). Having said that I"ve never heard of a Marine Shako or accoutrements but guess they could exist.

PB if it were me I'd contact the Marine Corps museum to see what they say about this. If it did exist they should have a record and photographs/drawings of what it looked like.

If its real, based on the price and a Marine accoutrement collector, I'd give it some serious consideration particularly since non-dug. However I can't say if its fake or not.

Just my 2 cents worth from someone who has reached justification for buying relics if on my wish list, no chance of finding on my own, and within acceptable price range.

I spit into the wind once and it blew back and hit my wife. Dunno, guess it's all about how you hold your mouth and correct windage adjustment. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Model 1859 USMC Shako Insignia on EBay. Honest opinion requested   February 25th 2013, 7:00 pm

Well I emailed him asking what he has to back up its authenticity plus to provide photos of the back. However I did find this too:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-M1859-US-Marine-Corps-Civil-War-Era-Shako-Helmet-F-Plate-3-Piece-Set-/170898887039?nma=true&si=ZB3vmzvDU6Ztf6BhkXkqE00U%252Bjw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I am on the fence on this.
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ConfCav
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PostSubject: Re: Model 1859 USMC Shako Insignia on EBay. Honest opinion requested   February 25th 2013, 7:52 pm

Papa Bear wrote:
Well I emailed him asking what he has to back up its authenticity plus to provide photos of the back. However I did find this too:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-M1859-US-Marine-Corps-Civil-War-Era-Shako-Helmet-F-Plate-3-Piece-Set-/170898887039?nma=true&si=ZB3vmzvDU6Ztf6BhkXkqE00U%252Bjw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I am on the fence on this.

Exactly PB; ask him for a letter of provenance and then have someone help to authenticate it. Without documentation I'd be very leery.
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PostSubject: Re: Model 1859 USMC Shako Insignia on EBay. Honest opinion requested   February 25th 2013, 8:50 pm

I dont know, That thing is crisp though. I hope you find that it's real. A very nice piece.
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PostSubject: Re: Model 1859 USMC Shako Insignia on EBay. Honest opinion requested   February 25th 2013, 9:52 pm

Here is what I got for a reply:

I relisted this item with better pictures. I'm certain that this is either from Stokes and Kirk or Bannerman. Both of whom were large vintage military surplus dealers who are no longer in operation.

Here is it's relisting:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-MODEL-1859-US-MARINE-CORPS-2-PIECE-SHAKO-HELMET-FRONT-PLATE-INSIGNIA/130858264010?ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1&ih=003&category=136&cmd=ViewItem





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PostSubject: Re: Model 1859 USMC Shako Insignia on EBay. Honest opinion requested   February 26th 2013, 6:47 pm

If it is what it is, it's affordable. I'd still contact the USMC Museum to see what they think of it regarding period and authenticity.
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PostSubject: Re: Model 1859 USMC Shako Insignia on EBay. Honest opinion requested   February 26th 2013, 10:30 pm

I didn't see any need for better pictures personally. You could see every detail in the original. Seems a little fishy to me. Personally I wouldnt give the USMC the link. I would snip it and send it to them. They might want it if its real. Wink
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Model 1859 USMC Shako Insignia on EBay. Honest opinion requested

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